-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Korpusik Tel: 408-276-6385 Frontend Technologies (FTAP) Fax: 408-276-5092 Sun Microsystems email: neil.korpusik@sun.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. SV-EC Committee Meeting Monday Jun 11 2007 11:00am - 1:00pm PST With the new calculations for voting rights below... 3/4 rule = .75 * 21 = 16 (121202020102020101311) Day (481593604882505956041) (000011111100000000000) Month (889900112211223344456) (000000000000000000000) Year (666666666677777777777) ------ Attendees ------ (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-AA) Arturo Salz 19 (--AAA-AAAAAAA-AAAAAAA) Cliff Cummings 17 (AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAAA) Dave Rich 20 (AA-A-AAA-AAAAAAA---AA) Francoise Martinolle 15 (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-) Mehdi Mohtashemi 19 (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Neil Korpusik 21 (AAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAA) Ray Ryan 20 (AAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA---AA) Gordon Vreugdenhil 17 (AAAAAA--AAAAA-A--AAAA) Steven Sharp 16 (--AAAA-A-------------) Phil Moorby 05 - No voting rights (---AA-AAA-AAAA-AA-A--) Doug Warmke 12 - No voting rights (AAAAAAA---AA-A-AAAAAA) Stu Sutherland 16 (-AAAA--AAAA-A-AAAAA-A) Heath Chambers 15 (-AAAAAA-A----AAAAAAAA) Don Mills 15 (--AA--A---A-AAA--A-AA) Jonathan Bromley 10 (--A------------------) Logi 01 - No voting rights (----AAA--------------) Melvin 03 - No voting rights (-----A-AAAAAA-AAAAAAA) Mark Hartoog 14 (-------A-------------) Satia 01 - No voting rights (--------AAA----------) Rob Slater 03 - No voting rights (-------------A-------) Alex Gran - Mentor 01 - No voting rights (---------------A-AAA-) Mike Mintz 04 (------------------AAA) Geoffrey Coram 03 (-------------------AA) David Scott - Mentor 02 16 people (other than the chair) currently have voting rights ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik Mehdi was not on the call, Neil acted as chair. ////////////////// June 11, 2007 ///////////////////////// 1. IEEE patent policy ------------------ ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Cliff - Assume that the patent policy was read Second: Gord Passed unanimously 2. Review meeting minutes/Notes: ---------------------------- http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_30_2007_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_May_14_2007_Minutes.txt <not yet posted - were sent out along with the agenda> Move: Heath - approve meeting minutes of April 30 Second: Jonathan Abstain: Gord, FM Opposed: none Passed Move: cliff - approve meeting minutes of May 14, With the correction to the attendance: Geoffrey Coram was present Second: Stu Abstain: Heath Opposed: none Passed 3. New operating guidelines - voting rights changes, etc. New guidelines were sent out May 25, 2007. The main change that pertains to the svec is that there is a new rule in place for retaining voting rights. Anyone that has attended three-fourths of all the meetings will have voting rights. 4. New version of mantis - Dave This has been put in place. Relationship field - makes it easier to link related mantis items Managers will see the biggest change. Searches are now faster. Jonathan - The Product Version field (LRM version) Dave - it can be updated. 5. Discussion on Merged LRM 1800-2008 Draft3 Stu - draft 3a - IEEE version for sale - minor changes sent to Stu that were pure editorial issues were incorporated. - There were quite a few of these (50-60) - He will email a list of the changes that were made. - Draft 3a was completed (was sent to IEEE and Dennis ~10 days ago) - Jonathan - says it is available on the IEEE web site - purely editorial changes can still go to stu (copy the chair) Neil - all content changes must now go through mantis 6. Review mantis items with proposals Those voted on in previous meetings 1777 changes made properly? (see minutes) http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001777 Some people were unable to upload the proposal (blanks in name) 1787 changes made properly? (see minutes) AI/Neil - send email on what he thinks is wrong with 1777, 1778 Mantis items that didn't pass in the email votes 1371 Semantic of program block $exit http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001371 was a new proposal uploaded? (discussed May 14th) Last update was 4/25 AI/Dave - upload a new proposal. 1384 bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001384 was a new proposal uploaded? (discussed May 14th) AI/Dave - update the section numbers. 1707 streaming operator should specify which direction slices are taken from http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001707 Cliff - wants to discuss it. Neil - has a problem with a particular sentence Jonathan - has a big problem with the current description - would like to see a reference algorithm. - he knows enough to take the first cut at such an algorithm. AI/Jonathan - take a crack at the new algorithm AI/Neil - resend my feedback 1723 Size method for associative arrays http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001723 Cliff - size - 1024, 16 Dave - high and low index information is available with $high(array) - anything with > or < defined. Jonathan - what if indexed by a string? Dave - Cliff wants total possible span Jonathan - that is a property of the data type not the usage Arturo - what about string data type? Cliff - num - should tell us the number of elements Heath - other languages (e.g. e) have num the same as size a list in e Ray - for a Q, size tells you the number of elements in the Q Arturo - would it make sense to have num(?) for all arrays? Ray - first index is always 0? (answer is yes) Cliff - bounded Q's are allowed - can we do Cadence damem pli range of a certain size; use damem pli code to access it. Sparse array. Jonathan - an associative array with a subscript of a certain type. isn't it the same? Cliff - he wasn't sure if implementations allow what he wants Steven - can't handle a range that isn't a power of 2. - need to always start at 0. Dave - num and size - he thinks are interchangeable. - limit or something else would be more descriptive - can't determine the limit of a mailbox - num and size are just arbitrary names - wants the same word to find the number of elements. i.e. a consistent method name - need both now, for backwards compatibility Cliff - thinks of them as being different What about the following num - dynamic array and Q size - can't be used for assoc. Move: Dave - approve the proposal for 1723, with friendly amendment for section number 7.10.1 Second: Heath Abstain: Opposed: Cliff - doesn't think of size as being the number of elements, thinks of it as the address spanned, encompassed by elements already allocated. Stu - no change needed Passed - with 2 no votes AI/Dave - upload a proposal with the updated section number. 1500 Forward typedef of a class is only to declare instances of that type http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001500 Gord - wants this mantis item to pass - Knows of at least one big user that has a flow for their design style: global type parameters - using forward typedefs This change would affect that style of flow. - compilation units - will resolve a typedef at end Arturo - agrees with Gordon thinks a forward typedef is only useful for classes Ray - the LRM has the following example typedef foo; foo f = 1; typedef int foo; Mark - typedefs existed in SystemVerilog before classes existed Stu - there are backward compatibility issues. Gord - would like to be allowed to make changes if it makes sense Dave - Superlog had pointers to structures. That is why this capability existed in SystemVerilog 3.0 Mark - what is the compelling reason for taking it away? Gord - an implementation has to not do anything until $unit is loaded - then you can make decisions - forward typedef - inefficiency issue users have a sense that they aren't resolved after elab. Arturo - put it into the LRM that they are similar to parameters. e.g. inefficient Gordon - if this came up 2 years ago he would have pushed for it. - not sure how it would be enforced - users are expecting typedefs to be handled during compilation and not treated like a type parameter (e.g. inefficient) - name resolution committee - binding issues still remain - how do name resolution into a forward typedef if it has the same restrictions as a type parameter. Mark - agrees that a forward typedef is similar to a parameter Gordon - arguing that we should pass this with the thought that it is needed for some other name resolution issues. Mark - is working on alternate language rules for type parameters Gordon - we should then table this item. Ray - 16.8 has a number of other places that would also need to be made if we decide to approve mantis 1500. <we agreed to wait for Mark's write-up on type parameters> AI/Mark - send out to the sv-ec his write-up on type parameters. 1556 in-line static variable initialization - require keyword static? http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001556 module top; int count = -1; // static keyword not required function int counter(); return count++; endfunction initial begin for (int i=0; i<3; i++) begin automatic int loop1 = counter(); print(); end // prints 1 2 3 for (int i=0; i<3; i++) begin int loop2; // static keyword not required static int loop3 = counter(); // static keyword required print(); end // prints 3 3 3 for (int i=0; i<3; i++) begin int loop3 = counter(); // illegal // static or automatic to be legal print(); end end Cliff - wasn't sure that adding the keyword was needed Dave - was in original sv 3.0 and removed since it wasn't clear Jonathan - fixing a point of misunderstanding. Thinks that there are issues with other variables. - the loop2 variable in the example is also static - thinks it is crazy to have two statics next to each other. and to not require static on both. - storing up a bunch of surprises in the future. Gord - the issue is when the initialization happens. agrees this is irregular, but less surprising. - would like to require static on both, but can't due to backward compatibility Steve - was in 3.0, removed by svec?, he thinks so. Thought it should have been done in svbc. Procedural problem. Jonathan - thinks it should be deprecated Stu - thinks it should be a lint check - init of a static Steven - C requires static for both of them. Jonathan - doesn't use a lint checker. Dave - can't require static for all cases (backward compat) stu - not likely for this one change to cause backward compat Jonathan - it would be legal to add static on loop2? (yes) Move: Dave - approve motion for 1556, new section number 6.6 --> 6.21 Second: stu Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously 1608 equality, inequality and conditional operator rules for class handles http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001608 1609 import statements should not be allowed in class scopes http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001609 1715 Triggered property of a clocking block http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001715 1789 is ready for an email vote 1857 is ready for an email vote 1371 is ready for an email vote AI/Neil - start an email vote for these 3 mantis items 7. Discussion: mantis items with no proposal 8. Next meeting: June 25th 2007 - yes July 9th 2007 (proposed)Received on Sat Jun 23 15:17:47 2007
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