SV-EC Ballot resolution committee meeting. Monday April 27 2009 11:00am - 1:00pm PDT [ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_27_2009_Minutes.txt ] Meeting number: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 000 000 112 Meeting Days: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (122 ) Day (307 ) (000 ) Month (444) (000 ) Year (999 ) ------ Attendees -------------------------------------------------------- (A-A) Arturo Salz 2 (A-A) Cliff Cummings 2 (AAA) Dave Rich 2 (AAA) Francoise Martinolle 2 (AAA) Mehdi Mohtashemi 2 (AAA) Neil Korpusik 2 (AAA) Ray Ryan 2 (-AA) Gordon Vreugdenhil 2 (AAA) Steven Sharp 2 (A-A) Stu Sutherland 2 (AAA) Heath Chambers 2 (AAA) Don Mills 2 (AAA) Jonathan Bromley 2 (AAA) Mark Hartoog 2 (AAA) Tom Alsop 2 (---) Alex Gran - Mentor 0 (A-A) Mike Mintz 2 (---) Geoffrey Coram 0 (AAA) David Scott 2 (---) Benjamin Chen 0 (---) Mike Burns 0 16 joined for the first call. 13 joined for the second call. On April 13 2009, voting rights Were reset. 16 joined for the first call on April 13 2009. 13 joined for the second call on April 20 2009. ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// April 27 2009 ///////////////////////// Agenda: 1. Review IEEE patent policy ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Heath - assume patent policy was read Second: Mark Abstain: None Opposed: None Approved 2. Review meeting minutes/notes: Approving April 13 2009 minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_13_2009_Minutes.txt The continuation portion Was not available, leave for next meeting to vote on approval. 3. Updates from p1800WG / ------------------------------------------------------ The P1800 Will be meeting this Thursday May 7th. 4. Ballot Comments reviews --------------------------------------------------------- 4.1: Action items are re-arranged per individual name, will be reviewed below. 4.2: SV-BC requests for sv-ec review: -------------------------------------- id: Mantis items ================== id 42: Mantis 2682 - Mantis 2680 - was voted in the sv-bc Gord - appears to be an Editorial issue Stu - agreed ("a warning shall be issued...") Jonathan - it is a trivial change AI: Stu - write a proposal (the third 'is'). Dave mentioned a second spot also. id 138: mantis 2693, section 25.9 - virtual interface in a coverpoint Tom - was not discussed in the svbc. Arturo - thinks it should be allowed. - can a virtual interface element be used as a coverage item. David - we would be in favor of that. Steven - if that virtual interface is null, what would happen? Arturo - undefined in those cases. Steven - the issue is whether there can be dynamic references. David - believes that dynamic references should be allowed. Steven - get similar messages to when access a null pointer. - if dynamic references are already allowed, virtual interfaces don't seem to be any worse. Arturo - we just need a clarifying sentence. AI: Jonathan - put together a proposal (in the coverage section) id 140: Mantis 2694 - virtual interfaces in interfaces Steven - an interface can indirectly contain a virtual interface why can't it contain it directly? Gord - static variable that is a class handle. can do a continuous assign to it Jonathan - a virtual interface is a handle to a static quantity, less fluid than a class handle. Steven - perhaps we shouldn't make this change at this point in time. Francoise, Stu, Arturo - all agreed that we shouldn't change it. AI: Mehdi - put into email vote - consider for next PAR. 4.3 sv-ec related ballot comments: ------------------------------------ The following mantis items have been created for ballot issues: AI: Mehdi - put the following up for an email vote 35 mantis 2705 36-40 mantis 2700 44 mantis 2701 46 mantis 2706 47 mantis 2713 57 mantis 2698 Cliff 80 mantis 2596 106 mantis 2710 107 mantis 2711 116 mantis 2712 182 mantis 2514 65 mantis 2723 42 mantis 2682 Gord - does anyone know if there is a mantis item for id 65? Gord created one. - id 41, line 15 of new one 51 of old one Stu - there was an approved change (see Shalom email). The example wasn't updated. Mantis 2680 NOTE: discussion on voting eligibility for email ballot vote Who can vote on the email vote? We believe only those that attended one or more conference calls. ================= Action items from April 13 2009 =============== AI: Arturo - row 132, 133, id 30 & 31; write it up, both 132 and 133 Arturo - string and class objects are clearly excluded. - 30, 31 will be covered by one mantis item. AI: Arturo - row 184, id 114, put a proposal together; non-trivial AI: Arturo - row 192, id 120, follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Cliff - row 157, id 57; put together a proposal AI: Dave - row 140, id 186; put together a proposal. AI: Dave - row 141, id 43; put together a proposal for this AI: Dave - row 143, id 188; will look into 141, 144 AI: Dave - row 144, id 45; combine this with row 141, id 43 AI: Dave - row 147, id 181; follow-up on thisfor now AI: Dave - row 158, id 182; follow-up, proposal, maybe trivial. AI: Dave - row 167, id 183; follow-up, non-trivial AI: Dave - row 172, id 102; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Dave - row 173, id 190; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Dave - row 196, id 185; follow-up, trivial. AI: Dave - row 197, id 192; follow-up, non-trivial. AI: David Scott - row 175, id 105, follow-up, non-trivial AI: David Scott - row 176, id 106, follow-up, maybe trivial AI: David Scott - row 177, id 107, follow-up, non-trivial AI: David Scott - row 180, id 110; make sure it is a duplicate AI: David Scott - row 183, id 113, follow-up, trivial. AI: David, Gord - row 186, id 116; follow-up. non-trivial AI: David Scott - row 190, id 121; follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Francoise - row 150, id 50; will follow-up for now Gord - same as id 64 Gord - id 52, 64 - the same Gord - not sure we want to make a set of changes for 64. - c::t can only be used to reference an out of block declaration (?) (see 8.24.1) - reference to param and param classes, boils down to same point as in issue 59. See note for it from Gord - 8.24.1 and 6.15(?) - seem to assume that parameters are static public members of a class. - could update 8.2, add a forward reference here to 8.8 (static class properties) Steven - 8.22, top of page 139 Gord - "In addition class parameters and localparms may be addressed through a class handl the same was as a static class property." Mark - this.xxx - similar to a constant expression shouldn't be allowed. Gord - no, just for an arithmetic operation, or something like that. - class_type::parameter - can be used as a constant expression class_handle.parameter - not a constant expression Arturo - confusion comes by calling parameters static Steven - they are beyond static. Arturo - expecting section 8.22 to be authoritative. Francoise - we need to Arturo - :: is allowed for atype . allowed for a type? Gord - . not allowed for a type, only question is for parameters and localparams - class_handle.parameter value name - you may want to use it in a $display(). Stu - if the LRM is silent, tools will start diverging. - a restriction would be useful, it could be lifted later. - sounds useful for debugging. Jonathan - why not allow user access to the parameter. - 8.22 - is one place Steven - we can't refer to them as properties or members - only issue is if there is already some text that forbids what we are considering adding. AI: Gord - create a proposal for an update to 8.22. Won't have time to review the whole LRM for other places to change. AI: Francoise - will make a more complete proposal. AI: Francoise, Gord - row 151, id 51; will follow-up for now (mantis 2724) Steven - if super.new is used, it must be placed first. Arturo - yes. Gord - the initialization question remains. Gord - "if called explicitly, super.new shall appear first..." "whether explicit or implicit the call to - a slight rewording might be sufficient. AI: Gord - id 51 will put together a proposal. AI: Francoise - row 152, id 52; will follow-up Same as 64 (Gord) AI: Francoise - row 153, id 67; will look at it. AI: Francoise - row 154, id 53; will follow-up. AI: Francoise - row 156, id 55; will follow-up, non-trivial AI: Francoise - row 179, id 109; try to get more information AI: Francoise - row 181, id 111; get more clarification. AI: Gord - row 149, id 49 [not here, but on his list to discuss/review] Gord - not sure how much users will care about specifics, as long as there is a solution. "When do initializers get executed relative to a super.new call" - see mantis 2597 AI: All - ids 67,53,55,109,111,49 send email on it. AI: Gord - row 160, id 59; related to id 50. AI: Gord, & FM - rows 163-166, id [59-62]; to follow-up. AI: Jonathan - row 142, id 44; will put together a proposal. AI: Jonathan - combine rows 135-139 [ids: 36-40] into one mantis item. AI: Mehdi - row 159, id 58; editorial, assign to editor. AI: Mehdi - row 160, id 60; editorial, assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 162, id 61; editorial, assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 168, id 80; proposal exists, add to email vote AI: Mehdi - row 169, id 81; send to sv-ac; sv-ec has no change to rec AI: Mehdi - row 170, id 101; send to sv-ac AI: Mehdi - row 174, id 104; assign to editor. AI: Mehdi - row 178, id 108; assign to editor. AI: Mehdi - row 182, id 112, assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 185, id 115; no change needed AI: Mehdi - row 187, id 117; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 188, id 118; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 189, id 119; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 191, id 122; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 193, id 134; send it to the sv-bc AI: Mehdi - row 194, id 135; send it to the sv-bc (duplicate of id 134) AI: Mehdi - row 195, id 137; assign to editor AI: Ray - row 171, id 102; put together a proposal AI: Steven - row 128, id 20; put together a proposal, mantis 2634 AI: Steven - row 130, id 21, will gather some input on this. mantis 2715 Steven - there seem to be several inconsistencies in the LRM. - there will be a fair amount of work to deal with this. - there are cases where a string is used as an integral type in the LRM. Mark - string literal - a bit vector - definitely a singular type Steven - "abc" - is a string literal - when used in some contexts it is converted to a string Gord - is used in a context where a string literal or a string is expected, it will work. Kind of a hybrid quantity. - the string type is different. Arturo - 11.4.13 "rock and a hard place" example Steven - %p format descriptor, descends until finds sigular types will print out a whole string. - class libraries, default arguments of type string are used. Steven - treat string as unpacked types, treat strings as exceptions in certain cases. Arturo - yes Gord - some of the existing hybrid characteristics need to be retained Steven - a string allowed in an event control? - today can't directly wait on an agregate Gord - thinks string shouldn't be allowed on an event control. - mailbox (mantis 1714 typeless mailbox) - can they hold string? Arturo - parameterized mailbox should be fine. Gord - a wholesale change to call a string data type singular will open up a lot of issues. Arturo - if now implementation divergence it should be easier to update the LRM. Gord - we are trying to add a string data type without breaking legacy Steven - people want to be able to act on them as a whole in places. - they want strings to fall into a middle zone. AI: Steven, Arturo, Gord - review the set of points in mantis 2715 AI: Stu - row 134, id 35; writeup a proposal AI: Stu - row 145, id 46; will write a proposal AI: Dave - send email to Mehdi on the mantis items that address his AI/s Mehdi - would like to have a shortened email ballot. So we can discuss in the next meeting. Steven, Stu - allow for an email vote that ends Thursday pm. Passed Unanimously Anyone that has participated in any of the 3 conference calls. Shalom will also be added to the list of eligible voters. Stu, Heath - add Shalom to the list of names. Passed Unanimously 4. Next meetings in 2009 --------------------------------- MOnday May 4 2009 11:00-1:00pm Monday May 11 2009 11:00-1:00pm === action items list below is provided for members reference === not part of official meeting minutes ================= Action item list provided for sv-ec =================== ============ from April 27 2009 meeting =================== AI: Stu - id 42; write a proposal (the third 'is'). Dave mentioned a second spot also. AI: Jonathan - id 138 put together a proposal (in the coverage section) AI: Mehdi - id 140 put into email vote - consider for next PAR. AI: Gord - id 52 and 64 create a proposal for an update to 8.22. Won't have time to review the whole LRM for other places to change. AI: Francoise - id 52 and 64 will make a more complete proposal. AI: Gord - id 51 will put together a proposal. AI: All - ids 67,53,55,109,111,49 send email on it. AI: Steven - id 21, will gather some input on this. mantis 2715 AI: Steven, Arturo, Gord - review the set of points in mantis 2715 (id 21) AI: Dave - send email to Mehdi on the mantis items that address his AI/s ================= Action item list provided for sv-ec =================== ============ from April 20 2009 continuation meeting =================== AI: Steven - row 146 id 47 create a proposal for updating the table. AI: Mehdi - row 148 id 48 add to an email vote, one of the canned responses should work. AI: Francoise - row 149 id 49 will add and email link to the mantis item. AI: Steven - row 150 id 50 will track down what text he thinks needs to be changed so that we can think of these as class members. AI: Francoise - will have a proposal by next meeting. AI: Arturo - row 151 id 51: take a look at this one (and line 152 id 52) AI: Francoise - add to mantis 2575 (line 150, id 50) AI: Mark - row 153 id 67write up a proposal AI: Francoise - row 154 id 53 write a proposal to move that one sentence earlier in this section. AI: Jonathan - row 158 id 182 will take a look at it. AI: Mehdi - row 167 id 183 add to the email vote. ================= Action item list provided for sv-ec =================== ============ from April 13 2009 meeting =================== AI: Mehdi - conduct an email vote on the trivial items.[requires proposals] AI: Steven - row 128, id 20; put together a proposal, mantis 2634 AI: Steven - row 130, id 21, will gather some input on this. AI: Dave - row 131, id 184; put together a proposal. AI: Arturo - row 132, 133, id 30 & 31; write it up, both 132 and 133 AI: Stu - row 134, id 35; writeup a proposal AI: Jonathan - combine rows 135-139 [ids: 36-40] into one mantis item. AI: Dave - row 140, id 186; put together a proposal. AI: Dave - row 141, id 43; put together a proposal for this AI: Jonathan - row 142, id 44; will put together a proposal. AI: Dave - row 143, id 188; will look into 141, 144 AI: Dave - row 144, id 45; combine this with row 141, id 43 AI: Stu - row 145, id 46; will write a proposal AI: Dave - row 147, id 181; follow-up on thisfor now AI: Gord - row 149, id 49 [not here, but on his list to discuss/review] AI: Francoise - row 150, id 50; will follow-up for now AI: Francoise & Gord - row 151, id 51; will follow-up for now AI: Francoise - row 152, id 52; will follow-up AI: Francoise - row 153, id 67; will look at it. AI: Francoise - row 154, id 53; will follow-up. AI: Francoise - row 156, id 55; will follow-up, non-trvial AI: Cliff - row 157, id 57; put together a proposal AI: Dave - row 158, id 182; follow-up, proposal, maybe trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 159, id 58; editoral, assign to editor. AI: Gord - row 160, id 59; related to id 50. AI: Mehdi - row 160, id 60; editoral, assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 162, id 61; editoral, assign to editor AI: Gord, & Francoise - rows 163-166, id [59-62]; to follow-up. AI: Dave - row 167, id 183; follow-up, non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 168, id 80; proposal exists, add to email vote AI: Mehdi - row 169, id 81; send to sv-ac; sv-ec has no change to recommend. AI: Mehdi - row 170, id 101; send to sv-ac AI: Ray - row 171, id 102; put together a proposal AI: Dave - row 172, id 102; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Dave - row 173, id 190; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Mehdi - row 174, id 104; assign to editor. AI: David Scott - row 175, id 105, follow-up, non-trivial AI: David Scott - row 176, id 106, follow-up, maybe trivial AI: David Scott - row 177, id 107, follow-up, non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 178, id 108; assign to editor. AI: Francoise - row 179, id 109; try to get more information AI: David Scott - row 180, id 110; make sure it is a duplicate AI: Francoise - row 181, id 111; get more clarification. AI: Mehdi - row 182, id 112, assign to editor AI: David Scott - row 183, id 113, follow-up, trivial. AI: Arturo - row 184, id 114, put a proposal together; non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 185, id 115; no change needed AI: David Scott , Gord - row 186, id 116; follow-up. non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 187, id 117; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - ro2 188, id 118; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - ro2 189, id 119; assign to editor AI: David Scott- row 190, id 121; follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 191, id 122; assign to editor AI: Arturo - row 192, id 120, follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 193, id 134; send it to the sv-bc AI: Mehdi - row 194, id 135; send it to the sv-bc (duplicate of id 134) AI: Mehdi - row 195, id 137; assign to editor AI: Dave - row 196, id 185; follow-up, trivial. AI: Dave - row 197, id 192; follow-up, non-trivial.