RE: [sv-ec] RE: 0001721: Ballot comment #188 order used for find and find_index

It is precisely because of associative arrays that the smallest/largest index order is relevant. Left and right indices are not well defined for an associative array, but its indices do have a well defined ordering. It's plausible to claim that for dynamic arrays, the index order and their left-right property are the same. But, that's not at all clear.
As for leaving the order unspecified, it is indeed because of side effects in the with expression.

        Arturo

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sv-ec@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ec@eda.org] On Behalf Of Bresticker, Shalom
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:44 AM
To: jonathan.bromley@doulos.com; sv-ec@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [sv-ec] RE: 0001721: Ballot comment #188 order used for find and find_index

Hi,

> > Surely an array?s indices prescribe an order and that?s
> > what first and last means
>
> That is a very reasonable position, but it was certainly
> not obvious to me, nor (I suspect) to Dave.  I had assumed
> that first and last were intended to reflect traversal order.

I had also assumed that. In the past, there were long discussions about this section (Mantis 978, etc.), and I don't remember anyone assserting that "first" meant smallest index. Such an assertion would also have to exclude associative arrays and there is no such statement. I also agree with Jonathan that "leftmost" is at least as logical as "smallest" (and more, in my opinion). Defining "first" and "last" would then enable removing the statement that traversal order is not defined, as simply being not relevant, or at least to restrict it to associative arrays.

Regards,
Shalom
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