[sv-ec] minutes text, Jan 7 2008 appended

From: Mehdi Mohtashemi <Mehdi.Mohtashemi_at_.....>
Date: Sun Jan 20 2008 - 21:27:36 PST
All,
I have appended the minutes for January 7th 2008 meeting since I
have not been able to upload the file to the sv-ec site.
- Mehdi

===== SV-EC_Meeting_January_7_2008_Minutes.txt  =========
SV-EC Committee Meeting
Monday January 7 2008  11:00am - 1:00pm PST

With the new calculations for voting rights below (rounded)...
                           3/4 rule  = 0.75 * 35 = 26

 Meeting number:
----------------------------------------
 0000000000000000000000000000000000000
 0000000001111111111222222222233333333
 1234567890123456789012345678901233445

 Meeting Days:
--------------------------------------------
(1212020201020201013112020201012120110) Day
(4815936048825059560415936067159263077)
(0000111111000000000000000000111111110) Month
(8899001122112233444566778899000112221)
(0000000000000000000000000000000000000) Year
(6666666666777777777777777777777777778)
------ Attendees ----------------------------
(-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-AAAA-A--AAAAA*AA*A) Arturo Salz            30
(--AAA-AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAA--A-A-AAA*A*A) Cliff Cummings         27
(AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Dave Rich              34
(AA-A-AAA-AAAAAAA---AAAAAAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Francoise Martinolle   29
(-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAA-AA*A*A) Mehdi Mohtashemi       32
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Neil Korpusik          34
(AAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Ray Ryan               34
(AAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA---AAA-AAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Gordon Vreugdenhil     30
(AAAAAA--AAAAA-A--AAAAAAAAA-AAAAAA**AA) Steven Sharp           29
(--AAAA-A-------------------------*-*-) Phil Moorby            05 - No
voting rights 
(---AA-AAA-AAAA-AA-A--------------*-*-) Doug Warmke            12 - No
voting rights
(AAAAAAA---AA-A-AAAAAAA---AAAAAAAA**AA) Stu Sutherland         27
(-AAAA--AAAA-A-AAAAA-AAAA-AAAAAAAA*A*-) Heath Chambers         27
(-AAAAAA-A----AAAAAAAAA--AAAAAAA-A*A*-) Don Mills              26 
(--AA--A---A-AAA--A-AAAA-A-A--A--A*-*A) Jonathan Bromley       17 - (2
of last 3)
(--A------------------------------*-*-) Logie Ramachandran     01 - No
voting rights 
(----AAA--------------------------*-*-) Melvin Cardoza         03 - No
voting rights
(-----A-AAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*A*A) Mark Hartoog           28
(-------A-------------A-----------*-*-) Satia  (from Intel)    02 - No
voting rights 
(--------AAA----------------------*-*-) Rob Slater             03 - No
voting rights
(-------------A-------------------*-*-) Alex Gran - Mentor     01 - No
voting rights
(---------------A-AAA-AAAAA--A-AA-*A*A) Mike Mintz             14 - (2
of last 3)
(------------------AAAAAAAAAAAA-A-*-*-) Geoffrey Coram         13 - No
voting rights 
(-------------------AAAAAAAAAA-AAA*A*A) David Scott - Mentor   15 - (2
of last 3)
(------------------------A--------*-*-) Benjamin Chen - Cisco  01 - No
voting rights
(---------------------------AAAAAA*A*-) Mike Burns - Freescale 07  (2 of
last 3)
(----------------------------------*A-) Harry King - Cisco     01 - No
voting rights

 on January/7/2008 [for next meeting]
16 people (other than the chair) currently have voting rights

 **  Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi
//////////////////  January 7, 2008 /////////////////////////

Agenda:
-------
1. Review IEEE patent policy
   -------------------------
    ref:  http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt
        Move: Cliff - Assume that the patent policy was read
     Second: Neil
    Abstain: None
    Opposed: None
    Passed unanimously

2. Review minutes of previous meetings
------------------------------------------
 
http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_December_3_2007_Minutes.t
xt
 
http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_December_10_2007_Minutes.
txt
 
http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_December_17_2007_Minutes.
txt

   Note: Dec 3rd is a continuation of the Nov 26th conference call.
   Note: Dec 17th is a continuation of the Dec 10th conference call.

   NOTE:
   Attendees needed more time to review the past meeting minutes,
   during next meeting we will review these minutes.


3. Updates from 1800 WG and Champions discussions:
--------------------------------------------------
  From Neil's posting to the alias, December 22 2007, 
  (email http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-ec/hm/5410.html   )

  AI/Neil - what is drop dead date for all changes by svec (2/29?)

     12/17/07 SV-BC and SV-EC deadline for completing items from their
Mantis list.
           This deadline was extended for sv-bc and sv-ec (used to be
12/15/07).
           Past this date they are only authorized to work on
              - LRM merge issues
              - Editing issues
              - Champions feedback
              - 2005 ballot issues (see list of Mantis items below)
              - Jeita issues       (see list of Mantis items below)
              - Mantis 1648 - svec (was originally in svac)
              - Mantis 2008 - svbc (related to svac 2005)
              - Mantis 1982 - svbc to review this svac mantis item
              - Mantis  966 - svbc to review this svac mantis item

  01/31/08 SV-BC and SV-EC complete work that could impact the SV-CC

   Neil: not yet from the approved minutes, cut-off date was 12/17/07.
        sv-bc and sv-ec only to work on those issues.
        bc and ec have till end of January to do the job.
        as of today no one goes beyond end of February.
        2/29/2008 is the current time-line.

   Champions meeting on Dec 20 2007.
      Mantis items 2215, 2211, 2164, 2149, 2113 - passed unanimously
      Mantis 2214 - Editor to check on spelling of "wildcard" versus
"wild card"
      Mantis 1857 - was recategorized as an enhancement


  The next Champion's meeting will be held Jan 17, 2008.
  The next p1800 WG meeting will be on Jan 31, 2008.


4. Immediate issues to review
-------------------------------------------------------
   1336
   Dave - two sections were to 13.2 and 13.4 in line with text that was
added in 13.4.5
        based on champions' objection.
   Cliff  - final block - says something about same things allowed in
functions
   Dave   - doesn't think it is an issue, due to special conditions
             (eg fork-join)
   Steven - "fork join" versus "fork join_none" - it might be better to
             differentiate between these.
             Would prefer to see "fork join" to say "fork join and fork
             join_any". It would then be clear that "fork join_any" is
allowed.
    Dave   - thinks it is ok  (can't have fork join_none in a final
block)
  Jonathan - Ok with that
           - "executing in a single time unit" - seems to be odd
             #0 is in the same time slot but not allowed.
    Neil   - NBA is allowed, but #0 isn't
    Steven - NBA just schedules something in another queue.
           - as it stands, 1336 is a significant improvement over the
             current LRM
    Neil   - procedural continuous assign was dropped on purpose?
    Steven - It creates a sub-process
    Arturo - only during lifetime of function?
    Steven - The sub-process stays alive
  Franciose - what if function has an automatic?
    Steven - can't use an automatic in a continuous assign
           - force/release
             assign/deassign
           - not an issue - used to restrict side-effects
    Arturo - was wondering about the methodology aspect of it.
    Cliff  - procedural continuous assigns are subject to deprecation
    Stu    - friendly amendment
             13.4.5 exceptions that are noted, add to end of both items
             1. and 2. and remove from existing location.
             "with exceptions noted in 13.4.5"
             Would make it more clear where the exceptions apply.
           - a bulleted list is different from a numbered list
  Franciose - can change the numbered list to a dashed list
    Gord   - prefers to just pass it as is and create new mantis items
for
             any more issues.
  Francoise - it is unusual to keep repeating the statement about
exceptions.
     Neil  - what about an NBA in a final block?
     Dave  - Mantis 1345 (2120?) - clarifies this - it is an error
     Cliff - what about $strobe?
    Steven - it would also be an error.

    <NOTE: to vote on the friendly amendment separately>
       Move: Stu - to approve the friendly amendment
     Second: Cliff
    Abstain: Ray, Arturo, Steven
     Oppose: Mike Mintz, Gord, Mark, Neil, Francoise, Dave Rich
     Motion failed
       
       Move: Dave - approve 1336 with the new proposal as is
     Second: Steven
    Abstain: None
    Opposed: None
    Passed unanimously.

   Mantis 1858: updated proposals
   Gordon: still need to complete the combined version, he has the
source
        file for that.
        should be ready for the next meeting.

  Mantis 1648 -- svec (was originally in svac) ballot issues from 2005
SV-EC
   Cliff - This is the default clocking block,
         - Adds a default reset
   Dave  - in covergroup we have iff, could use a default disable in
conjuction with
           covergroups.
   Jonathan - why does it apply here?
   Arturo  - you may not want to cover something at that same time.
   Jonathan- but covergroups do not support clocking block,
      Dave - assertions must have a clock
  Jonathan - temporarily stop the cg?
      Dave - if disable was active - don't do a sample
  Jonathan - iff abandons an assertion completely.
             The concept is different.
    Arturo - must explicitly code a cg disable within the cg
  Jonathan - doesn't see an intersection of semantics here (assertions
and cg)
     Gord  - there can be a large number of covergroups
    Arturo - cg is a dual of an assertion
  Jonathan - could have a large number of assertions and wants a default
disable
           - expects to have a small number of cgs (could disable
individually)
     Dave  - for a cg need the iff for each coverpoint
  Jonathan - a property of the cg would make more sense for that.
     Gord  - could add disable iff to the cg itself.
     Cliff - sees potential value, but are we in a position to do it
now?
    Dave   - need to define it now or can't do it later
    Gord   - default disable outside cg doesn't affect a cg - ok with it
           - default disable within a cg - would make some sense.
             Should consider it as a separate discussion.
    Arturo - agreed
     Ray   - that makes sense
     Dave  - that would be better than no default at all.
     Gord  - if name the disable - could then attach it to various cgs
           - additional syntax may be required in the cg to use a
default
             disable iff.
     Dave  - mainly wanted to allow others to review it.
           - we must say we are doing it or not
     Stu   - Observ --> Observed within the current proposal.
   Gordon - we can separately consider adding syntax in the future.


       Move: Gord - statement to sv-ac on mantis 1648:

                  The svec has considered the impact of default disable
on
                  covergroups and decided that at this time it would not
                  be appropriate to adopt the default disable for those
                  constructs.

     Second: Arturo    
    Abstain: none
    Opposed: none.
    Passed unanimously



   Ballot issues from 2005
-----------------------------------------------
   Mantis  737  - Bind for class discussion  - closed (won't fix)
    completed. [closed already]. Nothing to consider.

   Mantis 2087 -- champions from dec 12 2007 had made proposal. in
feedback state

     Neil - there were two friendly amendments from Champions/WG

  AI/Gord - update the proposal

   Mantis 1601 -- feedback state
      Neil - this Mantis item came from the SV-AC
      Gord - untyped is not quite correct here. also singular
      Dave - there need to be some additional restrictions.
           - the svac created an 'untyped' keyword
             They formalized what it means to be untyped.
           - check to see if the same syntax could be used elsewhere
      Gord - there is a magic type today for a mailbox
  Jonathan - not sure where untyped helps us
      Dave - a mailbox can't be extended today (no way to represent the
type).
      Neil - it needs to be done by the end of January (could affect the
cc).
 
  AI/Dave - put together a proposal for Mantis item 1601.


  Resolve following   516,  520, 522, 974  (were under mantis 1702)
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mantis  520 - should stand on its own - see Mike Burns' feedback
     Steven - comments aren't normative
   Francoise - didn't we say that this was not possible?
               Need to use a method.
      Gord   - when have refs in play there is a subtle situation.
    Jonathan - the normative text is correct but the example comments
are wrong


       Move: Neil - make mantis item 520 stand-alone (not a child of
1702)
      Second: Gordon
     Abstain: noene
     Opposed: none,
    Unanimously approved.

   AI/Jonathan - write a proposal for 520


  Mantis 516 - can be moved to the children of 1447

   Franciose - 5.7 and 5.8 were both updated in 1447
 
       Move: Neil - move 516 as a child of 1447 and close as a duplicate
of 1447
     Second:  Francoise
     Abstain: none
     Opposed: none.
    Passed unanimously



   Mantis  522 - can be closed as covered by 1702 (see Jonathan's
feedback)

      Neil - Don Mills was the one that voted no
      Deon - retracted his no vote during the meeting.

       Move: Neil - close 522 as a duplicate of 1702
     Second: Gord
     abstain: none
     opposed: none
     Approved unanimously


   Mantis  974 - can be moved to the children of 1447

      Move: Neil close 974 as a duplicate 1447
      second: Arturo
     abstain: none
     opposed: none.
      passes unanimoulsy
    

5. Next meetings in 2008
   ---------------------- 
   Was Monday January 21 2008; is Martin Luther King Day
   Next meeting will be on Tuesday January 22 2008 at 11:00-1:00pm.

   Monday February 4 2008  [beyond the 1/31/08 deadline]

================  END ========================== 


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