The next meeting of sv-ec will be on Monday June 11th, 2007 Date: June 11 2007 Time: 11:00am - 1:00pm PST Conference call bridge *** Note that this is not the usual number ** Toll Free Dial In Number: (866)839-8145 Int'l Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (865)524-6352 ACCESS CODE: 9301228 Agenda: ------- 1. Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt 2. Review minutes of previous meetings - attached April 30th, 2007 May 14th, 2007 3. New operating guidelines - voting rights changes, etc. 4. New version of mantis - Dave 5. Discussion on Merged LRM 1800-2008 Draft3 6. Review mantis items with proposals Those voted on in previous meetings 1777 changes made properly? (see minutes) http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001777 1787 changes made properly? (see minutes) Those that didn't pass in the email votes 1371 Semantic of program block $exit http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001371 was a new proposal uploaded? (discussed May 14th) 1777 Clarification of 1800-2005 section 18.4.1 1384 bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001384 was a new proposal uploaded? (discussed May 14th) 1707 streaming operator should specify which direction slices are taken from http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001707 1723 Size method for associative arrays http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001723 1500 Forward typedef of a class is only to declare instances of that type http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001500 1556 in-line static variable initialization - require keyword static? http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001556 1608 equality, inequality and conditional operator rules for class handles http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001608 1609 import statements should not be allowed in class scopes http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001609 1715 Triggered property of a clocking block http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001715 7. Discussion: mantis items with no proposal 8. Next meeting: June 25th 2007 July 9th 2007 -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Korpusik Tel: 408-276-6385 Frontend Technologies (FTAP) Fax: 408-276-5092 Sun Microsystems email: neil.korpusik@sun.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. SV-EC Committee Meeting Monday April 30 2007 11:00am - 1:00pm PST (1212020201020201013) Day (4815936048825059560) (0000111111000000000) Month (8899001122112233444) (0000000000000000000) Year (6666666666777777777) --------- Attendees ---------- (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-) Arturo Salz -- was traveling (--AAA-AAAAAAA-AAAAA) Cliff Cummings (AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAA) Dave Rich (AA-A-AAA-AAAAAAA---) Francoise Martinolle -- svcc f2f (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Mehdi Mohtashemi (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Neil Korpusik (AAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAA) Ray Ryan (AAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA---) Gordon Vreugdenhil -- svcc f2f (AAAAAA--AAAAA-A--AA) Steven Sharp (--AAAA-A-----------) Phil Moorby (---AA-AAA-AAAA-AA-A) Doug Warmke (AAAAAAA---AA-A-AAAA) Stu Sutherland (-AAAA--AAAA-A-AAAAA) Heath Chambers (-AAAAAA-A----AAAAAA) Don Mills (--AA--A---A-AAA--A-) Jonathan Bromley (--A----------------) Logi (----AAA------------) Melvin - Synopsys R&D (-----A-AAAAAA-AAAAA) Mark Hartoog (-------A-----------) Satia (--------AAA--------) Rob Slater (-------------A-----) Alex Gran - Mentor (---------------A-AA) Mike Mintz - Truster.com - East Coast (------------------A) Geoffrey Coram - analog devices ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// Apr 30, 2007 ///////////////////////// 1. IEEE patent policy ------------------ ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Cliff - new one will be up by end of today Move: Cliff - Assume that the patent policy was read Second: Steven Abstain: none Opposed: none passed 2. Review meeting minutes/Notes: ---------------------------- http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_05_2007_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_16_2007_Minutes.txt <not available yet - will be ready for the next meeting> 3. P1800 latest meetings April 17th, The Champions approved mantis 890 One abstain (Shalom). Shalom did a partial review and noticed a couple of minor issues. He also commented on the fact that there were still some emails going around (e.g. from svcc and Cliff's word-smithing). April 24th, The P1800 passed mantis 890 unanimously There was unanimous approval to move ahead with the merged LRM. Voting rights - to be reevaluated - Neil will be making a proposal. Cliff - from today's svbc - thought 2/3 would be best Stu - wants the 2/3 to start from the start of the current par Dave - was thinking 3/4 would be best 4. Discussion on Merged LRM 1800-2008 Draft2 Mehdi - svbc voted on individual items Dave - need to start with draft 3, draft 2 was proof of concept Stu - the end of this week draft 3 will be available - clause numbering will be updated in portions of draft 3 - will need to send a list of any svec editorial changes for d3 - check for any mantis not correctly implemented in draft 1 - mantis 890 was an exception (it has been incorporated) - draft 3 is just editorial changes for merge Jonathan - how deal with draft 3 Dave - a new field will be added to mantis, specifies which draft the mantis item applies to. - need to re-open those that aren't against draft 3. Check those that already have proposals to ensure they are valid for draft 3. Mehdi - draft 3 - need to finish up the fine-grained review. Stu - any problems with draft 3 need to be done through mantis items AI/Mehdi - send Stu a list of editorial problems to address in draft 3 5. Review mantis items from email votes and others ----------------------------------------- Cliff - didn't finish his review yet. Mehdi - how do we deal with abstain? Neil - abstain is the same as not voting (Dave also agreed) 1371 Semantic of program block $exit (DaveR) -- Clarification Dave - new proposal was uploaded on 4/25 Doug - need to merge this with 890 Doug - added gates(ie primitives) somewhere - after always constructs, add (primitives) Steven - all initial blocks need to exit - what if no initial blocks in program blocks? Neil - the line struck out is different from what was added. - there is a backward compatibility issue because of this change Steven - could add $exit after end of initial blocks Jonathan - what about coverage collection? - coverage group treated like something else spawned? Dave - vmm, rvm have explicit shut-down mechanisms. - wants users to explicitly end program sub-processes Steven - prefers to not change the behavior unless there is a good reason. It was decided to keep this mantis item open for now. 1384 bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members (DaveR,Neil) Dave - class on left-hand side Cliff - Arturo voted no in the email vote Arturo wasn't on the call so we moved to the next item. 1427 dynamic_array_new (Brad) Neil - unsigned issue, same problem as with coverage weight being unsigned Jonathan - there seems to be a lot of places where we have this problem. Friendly amendment. The type of this operand is longint. It shall be an error for the value of this operand to be negative. Ray - could there be a truncation issue? - what happens when type conversions take place here? Jonathan - any time assign a size you have this issue. Move: Doug - move to pass 1427 with the friendly amendment Second: Neil Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously AI/Mehdi - update the proposal with the friendly amendment. 1655 Coverage Calculation Corner Case Crumminess (Doug) Doug - added an example to the latest proposal Cliff - now ok with it. Doug - 1271 (was approved and incorporated) Neil - unsigned quantity - not shown as unsigned in data structure Doug - this is the only way to flag assigning negative values Move: Doug - move version 3 Second: Ray Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously 1732 Covergroup decl missing input qualifier (18.4) (arturo) Neil - duplicate of 1236 Move: Neil - move to close as a duplicate Second: Don Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously 1777 - description of nonconsecutive repetition operators needs to be clarified Don - updated the proposal Jonathan - the original text below the example has a couple of mistakes. b2 6th-->8th, and one other problem. b3 7th-->6th likewise b2 10th b9 was listed, but there is no b9 Move: - Don - approve mantis 1777 - 1800 18-4-1 update proposal b.html Second: Cliff Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously 1671 - duplicate of 1655 Move: Doug - close 1671 as a duplicate of 1655 Second: Don Abstain: Opposed: Passed unanimously 1787 LRM needs to discuss transition bins of length 1 - Doug Dave - change to "shall be illegal" Move: Doug - approve 1787, with the friendly amendment Second: Neil Abstain: Opposed: 1789 - Clarification of string behavior - Geoffrey Coram Cliff - question on \0 in a string literal. Agreed to keep it for next time. 6. Mantis items with no proposals 7. Next meetings -------------------------------------- May 14 Monday SV-EC Committee Meeting Monday May 14 2007 11:00am - 1:00pm PST (12120202010202010131) Day (48159360488250595604) (00001111110000000000) Month (88990011221122334445) (00000000000000000000) Year (66666666667777777777) --------- Attendees ---------- (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-A) Arturo Salz (--AAA-AAAAAAA-AAAAAA) Cliff Cummings (AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAA) Dave Rich (AA-A-AAA-AAAAAAA---A) Francoise Martinolle (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Mehdi Mohtashemi (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Neil Korpusik (AAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAA) Ray Ryan (AAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA---A) Gordon Vreugdenhil (AAAAAA--AAAAA-A--AAA) Steven Sharp (--AAAA-A------------) Phil Moorby (---AA-AAA-AAAA-AA-A-) Doug Warmke (AAAAAAA---AA-A-AAAAA) Stu Sutherland (-AAAA--AAAA-A-AAAAA-) Heath Chambers (-AAAAAA-A----AAAAAAA) Don Mills (--AA--A---A-AAA--A-A) Jonathan Bromley (--A-----------------) Logi (----AAA-------------) Melvin (-----A-AAAAAA-AAAAAA) Mark Hartoog (-------A------------) Satia (--------AAA---------) Rob Slater (-------------A------) Alex Gran - Mentor (---------------A-AAA) Mike Mintz - Truster.com - East Coast - consulting firm (------------------A-) Geoffrey Coram - analog devices (-------------------A) David Scott - Mentor ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// May 14, 2007 ///////////////////////// 1. IEEE patent policy ------------------ ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Mehdi - read all 5 pages of the new patent policy. 2. Review meeting minutes/Notes: ---------------------------- http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_05_2007_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_16_2007_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_30_2007_Minutes.txt <4/30 not yet available> Move: Cliff - approve meeting minutes of April 5, April 16 Second: Ray Abstain: Geoffrey Opposed: none Passed unanimously 3. Discussion on merged LRM 1800-2008 Draft3 Arturo - Stu did a good job on the merge Cliff - the svbc kept the same review assignments - now checking cross refs, BNF syntax boxes (cut and paste process) Stu - all the BNF came from the 1800 LRM - there may have been errors in draft 1. Neil - margin notes from the editor also need to be answered Stu - mantis 890 from the svec has some questions. Mehdi - we should also keep the same assignments for the svec review AI/ALL - same assignments. This time around it is a detailed review. AI/Doug - review merged sections on program block, clocking block and scheduling Process for any issues that get surfaced. Stu - pure editorial corrections can be sent directly to Stu. No tracking required. It is actually up to the submitters. Mehdi - the chair should also be copied. Jonathan - how know which were approved by the champions? Dave - check the resolved status - select "docs" from mantis to see the policy on fields Mehdi - has a list of what was approved and not in LRM. AI/Mehdi - send out this list. (those approved since 11/6/06) Ray - Syntax grammar in appendix. Annex A Will it be alphabetized? (Most seem to be) Stu - this would require a mantis item. Dave - will have an update to mantis in about 2 weeks. All proposals should have a description of what version of the LRM they are for. <from 4/30 meeting> AI/Mehdi - send Stu a list of editorial problems to address in draft 3 4. Review mantis items from email votes and others ----------------------------------------- 1371 Semantic of program block $exit (DaveR) -- Clarification <the proposal changes the current behavior - was reviewed 4/30> Neil - there is one sentence that was struck out and not added back in. Steven - the change is very different from what it is today. one program versus all program blocks. - The proposed change clearly changes the intent. - Originally there was an action on a per program basis. Should each program keep running until all end? - Some threads are spawned that just do monitoring... Dave - What was the original intent? Gord - if all programs end then the simulation ends. Dave - there should be some consistency with $exit and how programs end. Steven - originally when a program ended it would call $exit. - use wait-fork - stick a disable for at end of initial block Gord - really a use-model issue. Steven - what is most desirable? - we should leave it alone unless there is a good reason to change Dave - was thinking that there was an inconsistency - when reach end of all initial blocks, calls $exit Steven - there are two levels, $exit for last initial in a program last program exits, $finish Dave - one initial block, calls $exit Steven - could use a wait fork at the end of the initial block Jonathan - Could instantiate a covergroup in a thread. - The covergroup keeps "running" - He phrased it as a "trap" for users. - Would like to shut down the covergroup in a reasonable way. - Adding coverage to an existing TB Configure and launch a covergroup. Jonathan - wants a clear description of the following - what happens when don't call $exit - relationship between $exit and $finish Gord - some initial stuff just sets up processes - some stuff runs the testbench - there is no way to distinguish between these today - wants sim to finish when testbench finishes. Jonathon - Most people are headed to a consensus mechanism. - does $exit not get in the way? Cliff - $exit called from a non-program thread? (ie could be in a module) Cliff suggested a parenthetical note about a module. Dave - there could be a common task used in program and module Not easy to detect at compile time. e.g. an error handler - could also have $exit in a package. Steven - The LRM doesn't define the term "originates" - dynamic process origination - a package could fork a thread. Jonathan - we worked though this on where things get scheduled. Steven - this case is a bit more complex - which program becomes a requirement for $exit Arturo - agreed with Steven on this point Jonathan - that would just be implementation complexity Steven - even if a program calls a task in another program. The first program should still be exited, even though in 2nd one. Fm - agrees Arturo - thread origin (originating program) Cliff - maybe a description of thread genealogy Arturo - thinks the proposal is consistent with other changes we have made. Steven - they have implemented to the current text. Cliff - doesn't think the text is clear enough. Arturo - original spec was underspecified. Steven - last initial block of a program - today does an implicit $exit Dave - didn't think the original text made it clear that spawned threads were to be considered. Steven - used to be able to run off the end of some initial blocks and there was no problem until the last initial block ended. Arturo - calling $exit within any thread of a program will cause the whole program to end. Steven - when the last initial block ends. - reinstating that one sentence that was struck out doesn't seem to conflict with the rest of the changes. Steven - there are additional clarifications that could also be done. These apply to both the original text and the proposal. AI/Dave - add that sentence back in. - adapt it for draft 3 of the LRM. AI/Mehdi - send out for an email vote. 1384 bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members (DaveR,Neil) Neil - why is a class handle not allowed? Dave - A cast is not always on the LHS. - an example situation would be passing an argument to a function. Arturo - what is meant by passing it to a function? Dave - where is the allocation when you do a cast? Arturo - assume on LHS of an assign have a handle. RHS may contain a cast. a = new(); a = cast (a); // cast is redundant here Dave - the RHS has to be a class handle. - the assignment is doing a class handle copy. Ray - superclasses or sub-class. Arturo - you would need to create a temporary handle. From: associative array or class shall be illegal as a destination type. To: If the type of the destination is an associative array or a class, the operation shall be illegal. Jonathan - had some other email feedback. It shall be illegal to stream a class handle with local or protected members except when streaming the current instance this. It shall be illegal to stream a class handle with local or protected members if those members would not otherwise be accessible at the point of use of the streaming operator. What does the following mean? Reconstruction does not modify any internal properties in the target class object. Dave - rand mode, coverage etc. Jonathan - we need a standardized name for all of that. Arturo - refer to it as internal state. - only copies those properties that can be assigned to. Neil - Clause numbers need to be modified. AI/Dave - update it for an email vote. 5. Mantis items with no proposals 6. Next meetings -------------------------------------- May 28 Holiday <--- no meeting June 11 Monday <--- next meeting Move: Cliff - move that we skip May 28 and resume June 11 Second: Neil Abstain: none Opposed: none Passed unanimouslyReceived on Sat Jun 9 20:06:19 2007
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat Jun 09 2007 - 20:07:13 PDT